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Free, Online Collaboration with Yugma... but is it Safe?

December 19, 2006 - 11:36am — bex

I came across Yugma twice this week... once on Lifehacker and once on Digg.

Both times it gave me the willies...

It looks like great technology: online web collaboration based on HTML and a bit of Java... But I've always been a wee bit suspicious of hosting important information on somebody else's server. I'm suspicious about using Google to run my Patent Search for the same reason.

However, Yugma is a Minnesota company, and they did mention that you can host your collaboration on a non-Yugma server for added security... so I decided to at least try it before I judged too harshly.

So, I try to start a 'session,' and it launched a signed Java applet. I checked the signature, and it looked OK... but then it decided to install itself on my computer without notifying me or asking.

I know that's the best way to get performance out of applets, still it seemed a bit rude. Plus, it didn't come with an uninstaller! Doubly rude!

Before creating a session, it asked me to agree to their terms and conditions. Well, I actually read the whole dang thing. Of course, the thing I'm most interested in is their privacy policy... which was not in their terms and conditions.

Huh...

I found a link to their privacy policy on their terms and conditions page. Go ahead and click it. Page not found.

Apparently Yugma does not have a privacy policy. So... they can sell your collaboration data on that secret project to anybody they want. I'm not saying that they would, in fact I believe that they wouldn't. But it seems clear that they have no legal obligation to keep your conversations secret.

Warning bells going off like crazy, I decided to not use Yugma. I scrubbed all traces of it from my computer...

Maybe Beta 2 will be less evil... but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

IMPORTANT UPDATE: Most of the above is a paranoid ranting. I've been emailing some folks over at Yugma, and I'm feeling a lot better about them. Their privacy policy is now online, and the next uninstaller will work as it should. Sorry I called you evil!

Comments

December 19, 2006 - 1:53pm — Karel

Yugma is VERY safe and secure

Hi Bex,
Thanks to checking out Yugma. I work there so I will take the opportunity to respond and will be happy to discuss with you live, if you wish.

1) We do have a Privacy Policy. See https://www.yugma.com/global/privacy.php . You found a broken link that was located in the TOC page. We'll have that link fixed by tomorrow morning. In the meantime, if you click on the Privacy Policy link in the footer or the left navigation pane, you'll find the Policy.

2) We do have an uninstaller. Just go to Start/Programs/Yugma/Un-install Yugma.

3) We are not affiliated with IBM or any other large organization. We are a start-up trying to grow our
business like any other start up.

Long and short here is that Yugma is actually a very secure and reliable application.
We have implemented all of the necessary internal business policies to safe-guard
all Yugma user data and information. Furthermore, Yugma is being run by a seasoned management team that is completely committed positive values, collaboration, and communication. We'll be happy to review all of this with you
in more detail if you wish. (We have absolutely nothing to hide.)

Additionally, I can give you some insight on our
development roadmap and would welcome your feedback on priorities.
Just drop me a line at info@yugma.com
with best times/dates.

Thanks again to taking a look at Yugma.
Karel Lukas
Yugma, Inc.

December 19, 2006 - 4:10pm — bex

well THAT was fast...

Thanks for the reply...

After I posted I did find the online uninstaller, but it does not un-install the entire app. It leaves the DemoForge Mirage Driver. I'm assuming that's yours, since it got installed at the exact same time as Yugma.

I'd suggest wrapping your Java installer with a MSI based installer/uninstaller. That way sysadmins can 'push' the install of the client to windows desktops, and it appears in 'Add/Remove Programs.' The Java uninstall is nice, but a lot of IT folks insist on MSI.

In my opinion, the killer feature of Yugma is a non-hosted collaboration setup... so paranoid folks can get some guarantee of data ownership. After that, stability and performance are the most important.

Good luck with Beta 2!

December 19, 2006 - 4:47pm — Karel

Good suggestion. We'll do it

That's right... fast, safe, secure, easy to use,
plus cross platform :)

We debated about the Mirage Driver a while back...
and chose to leave it for a couple of valid reasons at the time.
But frankly you're right. So I discussed with our developers
again and we've decided to uninstall the Driver
as well. It will be addressed in the next release.

Regarding MSI: We chose to go with a Java installer because of
our cross platform requirements.

Regarding non-hosted version: we can go this route
on individual case basis, if the customer (typically
larger companies) absolutely requires.

Thanks

February 23, 2008 - 10:00am — Karel Lukas (not verified)

Lot's of good progress since we last connected

Hi Bex,
Hope all it swell! Just a quick note to tell you about some of the latest developments. One of the things we worked on last year was integration with Skype. We went all the way, and finally received formal "Skype Certification" at he beginning of this month. Not sure if you are a SKype user. If so, worth checking out. It just got mentioned as a "Top 5" by VOIP-NEWS.com. The standard version of Yugma has also come a long way. Better, faster, more robust. We actually have a new version (V3) due out in the next several days. Key thing we emphasize is that Yugma is radically easier, more universal (cross-platform), and disruptively priced. Thus... make it the web collaboration tool for the "rest of us." Finally, we in final phase with Truste to get their certification. We want to make sure that people know we've done everything there is to do to make Yugma a safe and reliable place to interact with others.
Best,
Karel
Karel
www.yugma.com

June 25, 2008 - 12:00pm — Visitor (not verified)

Creepy

Well, they still give me the creeps. They say "no installation" on their website, but when you start a session, you need to start an executable which installs Yugma. So much for "no installation"... Well, I decided to give it a try and installed it on Windows Vista.

When I was done trying it out, I decided to uninstall it. The program doesn't appear in the "Programs and Features", so there's no OS support to uninstall. I didn't find a Yugma directory in the Program Files either, so I got a bit paranoid now. After some searching I found the uninstall shortcut in the Start menu, but it was broken (I suppose it assumes an XP installation). Finally, I found the uninstaller in the /Users/User/Yugma/uninstaller directory. But when I start it, it tells me: "Uninstall not completed because you have an instance of Yugma running". Bah.

I looked in my taskmanager, services, everywhere, but no instance of Yugma to be found. To be on the safe side, I restarted my computer. But the Yugma uninstaller had conveniently removed itself, while leaving lots of other Yugma files on my computer. I decided to reinstall Yugma, restart and uninstall, but the same error came up. Arggg!

Now, I decided to remove the files I could find, shortcuts and desktop icons myself, but I wonder what Yugma left lying around in my registry. They really need to get a bit more serious about their uninstaller.

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